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0.9.81
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Ranger



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 6030

PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Celda
Sometimes coords you have are different then map system you use.
But you should know which one coords you have ...
It is possible to prepare ie gpx file with external computer tools and have good coords all the time (means recalculated if needed).
Other way is to have a list box in TB to select coords system by hand (not from map) but you still need to know what you are doing. No other way.
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Celda



Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 320
Location: CZ

PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ranger wrote:
@Celda
Sometimes coords you have are different then map system you use.
But you should know which one coords you have ...
It is possible to prepare ie gpx file with external computer tools and have good coords all the time (means recalculated if needed).
Other way is to have a list box in TB to select coords system by hand (not from map) but you still need to know what you are doing. No other way.


I would not like to be unpolite but ... Confused
Is there a map system where:
- 1 minute is not 1/60 of a degree ?
- 1 second is not 1/3600 of a degree ?
- Charater ' does not mean "minutes" ?
- Charater " does not mean "seconds" ?

I have thought that those are only different notations of the same number - e.g. like 5/4 = 1and1/4 = 1.25 Exclamation Aren't they Question
(Or 5/4 = 1.25 when working with one map and 5/4 = 1.21 when working with another ?)
Could you please explain ?
Thank you in advance for your patience Exclamation (Maybe a link to a suitable study material would also help !)

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Čelda
Gigabyte GSmart G1355 (dual SIM, Android 2.3.4 Gingerbread)
Till 5/2012:
mobile: SAMSUNG SGH D880 Duos (dual SIM)
GPS: Qstarz BT-1200 Bluetooth Solar Travel Recorder (MTK chipset)
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kruch
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Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 5664

PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The basic math and characters interpretation is of course correct. Smile

But the same numeric value (regardless of format DD.ddd or DD MM SS.sss or whatever) of coordinates can represent different positions when maps with different datums are used. The shift may be up to hundred meters.

Eg. N 49° E 15° on Shocart map (S-42 grid) will not be the same location as in GoogleEarth (WGS-84).
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Celda



Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 320
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:13 pm    Post subject: Re: A major bug in 0.9.81 (crucial for geocaching) !!! Reply with quote

@Kruch:
OK, that is finally what I am willing to understand Very Happy

But the problem I described is different Exclamation

Celda wrote:

- The WPT is saved right (even with "wrong map") when I enter it (by "Add Custom") in the file format (e.g. N 49.248191°, E 16.622006°)


Once more:
With some maps the result in GPX was shifted when I input (by Add custom)
Lat: N 49°14.8915'
Lon: E 16°37.3204'
but WAS NOT shifted when I input (also by Add custom)
N 49.248191°, E 16.622006° (which is equivalent of the above !!!)

So under certain circumstances the same numeric value input in different format (DD.ddd or DD MM.mmm) gives a different result in GPX Exclamation

(I could understand if the result was always shifted that it can be caused by the current datum. But the result in GPX is not the same - it is format deppendent !! So there is something wrong !!!)

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kruch
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Joined: 02 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok that sounds like a different problem, I'll check it Wink
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Celda



Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 320
Location: CZ

PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kruch wrote:
Ok that sounds like a different problem, I'll check it Wink


Thank you !
The problem was observed with this map (.MAP attached) and Settings->Basic->Coordinates to "Map Lat/Lon".



C2.map
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  C2.map
 Filesize:  4.12 KB
 Downloaded:  102 Time(s)


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Čelda
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Till 5/2012:
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Celda



Joined: 03 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Celda wrote:
kruch wrote:
Ok that sounds like a different problem, I'll check it Wink


Thank you !
The problem was observed with this map (.MAP attached) and Settings->Basic->Coordinates to "Map Lat/Lon".


However, I was trying to reproduce the error now but I could not succeed. But I am nearly sure I saw the behaviour I described.
Is it making fun of me or was I confused last time ??? Tomorrow never dies ... I am gonna reproduce it then !

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kruch
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Joined: 02 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could not reproduce it too Confused
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Celda



Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 320
Location: CZ

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kruch wrote:
I could not reproduce it too Confused


I could not reproduce it even today Sad Smile Maybe everything has been OK and all this was just the result of my ignorance, confusion and misunderstanding. Anyway I would like to write down how I understand it now (after your explanation) and what I feel to be rather confusive for a beginner in the current implementation of TB:

Generaly there are 3 independent issues:
I) Datum (coordinate system): This means which system (WGS-84, ? Pulkovo, ...) the coodinates beeing displayed/input are related to. Under default setting of TB the coordinates relate to the system of the map currently loaded. The same (numerically) coordinates in different coordinate systems can refer to a different real places which can be situated hundreds of meters from each other ! Both in geocaching and in GPX files the WGS-84 is always used (regardless of the current configuration of TB).

II) Notation: There are several notations how to write a "classical" coordinate (regardless of the coordinate system currently reffered to) - in degrees only, degrees and minutes, degrees and minutes and seconds and even other notations (map grid, ...).

III) Formatting required by an input box of a program (such as TB): Sometimes "N" is in front of the other text, sometimes it is behind, sometimes you must write the ' symbol, sometimes it can be omitted ...

Please, correct my mistakes if anything written above is wrong.

Now to TB:
1) The settings for coordinates should be split to at least 2 items:
- "Coordinate system" where user can choose e.g. "WGS-84 (geocaching)", "UTM", ... and a special choice "Current map related"
- "Coordinate display format" where user can choose e.g. "degrees only", "degrees and minutes", "degrees, minutes and seconds", ...

2) The coordinate input boxes of TB (e.g. Add Custom) can even now accept many formats (with/without ', with/without spaces) which is perfect but some behaviour seems to be weird - e.g. when I use "Map Lat/Lon", the ' symbol is displayed whilst when using "Geocaching Lat/Lon" the ' symbol is not displayed in the input box by default. (But in both the cases the input with/without the ' symbol is then accepted and so on.)

3) The display format is also influenced in a way (?) by the "Decimal precission" setting which is in a totally different menu ...

Enough !! It is so long - I hope you can read it all at least ... Shocked

Thanks for your cooperation.

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Gigabyte GSmart G1355 (dual SIM, Android 2.3.4 Gingerbread)
Till 5/2012:
mobile: SAMSUNG SGH D880 Duos (dual SIM)
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Ranger



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 6030

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a little bit more complicated as you think ... Very Happy
In many of systems you can use coordinates not only in lat/long, but in km (or miles) grids too. If you are using non WGS84 system maps, you can enter coords directly from crosshair position on map (map coords), which are next converted by TB to WGS84 values (visible in wpt navigation fields).
So if you can have life easier, using WGS84 maps only can be solution, you will have one type of lat/long coordinates ... and one (or more) distance grids Twisted Evil
All of that can be a bit confusing for user, but gives us a way to use in TB a lot of different maps and navigation informations.
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guest



Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 4989

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:17 pm    Post subject: centered crosshair Reply with quote

hi is it possible to have the crosshair always centered on the device screen,( nav4all has this feature)to have a moving map instead of a moving crosshair. it would be usefull to see in advance where we are going. when we are near a tile edge we cannot see the road ahead. thankyou .

joao paulo gois
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Celda



Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 320
Location: CZ

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:59 pm    Post subject: Re: centered crosshair Reply with quote

guest wrote:
hi is it possible to have the crosshair always centered on the device screen,( nav4all has this feature)to have a moving map instead of a moving crosshair. it would be usefull to see in advance where we are going. when we are near a tile edge we cannot see the road ahead. thankyou .

joao paulo gois


Try to tick/untick "Settings - Misc - 1-tile scroll" ...

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Čelda
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Till 5/2012:
mobile: SAMSUNG SGH D880 Duos (dual SIM)
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kundatra



Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kruch,
thank you for this great piece of SW!
As Milda wrote in this thread some time before, there is little bug in editing wpts. If *.loc files are edited, new file is tagged as *.gpx, so TB after restart can´t read wpts from edited file. (bug report: No waypoints found in *.loc ). If you rename file to *.gpx, it works fine. Can you fix this problem? Thanks in advance.

Kundatra
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kruch
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Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 5664

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it will be fixed in the next version.
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Kiikonen



Joined: 01 Apr 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kruch wrote:
@Kiikonen I was told that every geocacher would understand an abbreviation like TS1.5/2.0 - traditional type, small container, difficulty 1.5, terrain 2.0 - which you can see as GC Class item in waypoint details form...


Oh, I hadn't noticed that, thank you!
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