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How calibrate maps without knowing the projection method
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sinanmerjan



Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 33
Location: 35 48 43 N, 51 28 11 E

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sure. it will be possible. or at least it will be a good start in reaching to your wish list. I think that I can write a program to grab the wanted part of monitor. and if it worked fine we may add other features to it too.
It would be much better If was possible to have the dear Kruch opinion on that too, before trying to write it. I may write it in Win2000 env. and i think it may work in similar environment. May you tell Kruch too. I may go today , but will see tomorrow again. nice speaking with you.

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Duffa



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Mapy.atlas.cz - and I suppose most of simillar services - lets user to move map with a keys too. On Atlas.cz, four (not too fast) presses to a single arrow key moves the map to side/top/down by sharp one width/height of map window. Everytime, whatever the display resolution is!
I actually use 3 presses, to have some map area to overlap and mask unwanted "add-ons" on the map. Smile
No mouse panning, because then the placing of single pieces will be much longer!


http://api.mapy.cz/ may by better for it. But read http://api.mapy.cz/keygen at first, especialy "uživatel nesmí použít jakýkoliv software (roboty apod.) pro získání dat, která nejsou veřejně k dispozici na www.mapy.cz nebo v software Mapy API". Smile
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kruch
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Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 5088

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sinanmerjan wrote:
sure. it will be possible. or at least it will be a good start in reaching to your wish list. I think that I can write a program to grab the wanted part of monitor. and if it worked fine we may add other features to it too.
It would be much better If was possible to have the dear Kruch opinion on that too, before trying to write it. I may write it in Win2000 env. and i think it may work in similar environment. May you tell Kruch too. I may go today , but will see tomorrow again. nice speaking with you.


Display grabing sounds like a bad idea to me, sorry. I believe there's always a way to analyze and detect addressing scheme (scale, tile name/position/URL, ...) for online maps, that would allow you to write script-based downloader. Provided copyrights and/or usage policy permits to do so... Wink


Last edited by kruch on Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kruch
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Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 5088

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffa wrote:
http://api.mapy.cz/ may by better for it. But read http://api.mapy.cz/keygen at first, especialy "uživatel nesmí použít jakýkoliv software (roboty apod.) pro získání dat, která nejsou veřejně k dispozici na www.mapy.cz nebo v software Mapy API". Smile


Do you happen to know about usage policy for www.amapy.cz? I could not find it... and I admit I'm thinking of caching these maps first, and then asking at atlas.cz about it...
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Lakva



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 212
Location: N 50,2380 E 12,8760

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffa wrote:
http://api.mapy.cz/ may by better for it. But read http://api.mapy.cz/keygen at first, especialy "uživatel nesmí použít jakýkoliv software (roboty apod.) pro získání dat, která nejsou veřejně k dispozici na www.mapy.cz nebo v software Mapy API". Smile

In english: User must not use whatever kind of software (robots etc.) for grab data, which are not public available on www.mapy.cz or in SW mapy API"
BUT we did not talk about mapy.cz . AND we do not intend to sell those maps or get money with them any other way...
Maps on atlas seems better to me, as it has contour lines (Duffa, do you know any other web maps for CR with it?).

Well, Sinanmerjan, Kruch detected the adressing scheme for tiles. There are some directiories and then a filemane as 139_23.Gif i.e.
Then there are 2 possibilities how to use it:
1) convert those map tiles to PNG (I have soft to do this automaticaly, so is somebody needs...) and use them directly - in that case it is necessary to rename tiles to TB naming konvention. But those tiles may be too big for some phones, so...
2) align tiles into big PNG, calibrate, and then cut with TB cutter.


At the first step: may you code a program for downloading tiles in mentioned structure? Probably generic will be better, usable for others too. Something for tiles as <domain and directories><file prefix><X><divider><Y><sufix><extension>
where X and Y are in some intervals...
What do you thing?

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sinanmerjan



Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 33
Location: 35 48 43 N, 51 28 11 E

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Lakva] Well, Sinanmerjan, Kruch detected the adressing scheme for tiles. There are some directiories and then a filemane as 139_23.Gif i.e.
[/quote]

I could`nt understand where those some directories and the file are Sad

[quote="Lakva] At the first step: may you code a program for downloading tiles in mentioned structure? Probably generic will be better, usable for others too. Something for tiles as <domain and directories><file prefix><X><divider><Y><sufix><extension>
where X and Y are in some intervals...
What do you thing?[/quote]
and again I was not able to understand what may I do Sad
shame to me but I really became confuse of what is needed. please let do that step by step and also let`s have Kruch certificate for each one too, since we want them be useful for TB users as tools, too.

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Lakva



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 212
Location: N 50,2380 E 12,8760

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sinanmerjan wrote:
I could`nt understand where those some directories and the file are Sad

I think it is http://amapy.atlas.cz/files/300000/0/15/123_45.Gif
The first (bold) part is a domain and directory structure - it depends on map scale and it's possible to get it in Opera. So, this part is set once.
Then there is the row number - 123 - this is to be changed in cycle.
Then the divider is - _ - stable part
Then Column number - 45 - change in cycle
and finaly extension - .Gif - stable again

At the first step, all those files have to been downloaded.

sinanmerjan wrote:
please let do that step by step and also let`s have Kruch certificate for each one too, since we want them be useful for TB users as tools, too.

In Kruch side, there is no problem till now.

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Duffa



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Maps on atlas seems better to me, as it has contour lines Duffa, do you know any other web maps for CR with it?.


Because we are talking about czech maps and I mean it isn't interesting for non-czech users, I'll write in czech (my english is terrible... Smile

Sorry, ja jsem nejak prehlidnul ze chces mapy z atlasu. Jinak s vrstevnicema je plno map, treba mapy.centrum.cz nebo mapy.quick.cz, akorat tam nejsou GPS souradnice. Mne osobne se mapy na atlasu moc nelibi, prijde mi ze jsou to zrasterizovany vektory a jsou i takovy nejak divne barevny, navic rozumne detailu je tam az u vetsich meritek a to je nic moc do mobilu. Momentalne se chystam na plan Brna a tam je podle mne absolutni vitez mapy.quick.cz, v meritku 1:25000 super prehledna a ma popisy vsech ulic, coz je jinde az ve vetsim meritku. Bohuzel tohle meritko je jen u nekterych mest. Udelal jsem si na to i takovy primitivni udelatko, jednoduchy browser (jakysi prevzaty freewarovy projekt) s IE controlem, kde se da tlacitkem ulozit vyrez obrazovky do souboru + dalsimi tlacitky primo volat JavaScriptovy funkce pro posouvani bitmapy. Ale zatim je to takovy polofunkcni a nemam cas to dodelat.
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Lakva



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 212
Location: N 50,2380 E 12,8760

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Máš pravdu, padesátky a pětadvacítky na quicku vypadaj velmi dobře!!!
Co to Tvoje udělátko? Je to použitelný pro lib. měřítko a oblast?(samozřejmě pokud mapa exist.)
A... zkoušel jsi to kalibrovat? Když se to nakalibruje podle jinýho serveru do Ozi, je to potom přesný?
Moc díky za inspiraci Smile

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kruch
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Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 5088

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mapy.quick.cz are really nice, but image addressing is pretty cryptic Confused for automated downloader...

eg.: http://mapy.o2active.cz/Map?STATE=FMRv7j4eSAEVAAAAAABq-EABAA__&PROFILE=QUICK
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kruch
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Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 5088

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys, can you summarize requirements for a tool you have been discussing here? I'm not fully tracking this topic..

* First, what is it supposed to do?? Detect map projection when unknown as the topic name suggests? Or also download maps from onli ne sources for offline use? If so, then:

* Second, what map sources it should support? Wouldn't it duplicate capabilitis of other tools?
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guest



Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 3952

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hallo
I have tried to calibrate some old scaned maps but that maps are not compatibile with WGS 84 datum. I put 4 calibration point in each corner of maps but deviation is about 500 m. I know that I have to use Transverse Mercator projection and I found parameters for my country but I do not know how translate that parameter from old maps(deg min sec) to format for gps.Is there any converter for that?
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Ranger



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 4733

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you know original map datum and projection parameters, conversion is probably not needed, you can use custom datums in TB.
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Lakva



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 212
Location: N 50,2380 E 12,8760

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guest, I have got XLS table to convert datums. Write me your e-mail adress via personal message or ICQ, I'll send it to you.
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Ranger



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 4733

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Lakva,
Using converter is some option, but using correct datum is better think, if possible. WGS84 ellipsoid as universal worldwide one, have some disadvantages on old maps, often local datum better represents local earth shape. If, in addition, map have distance grid, after conversion it is unusable.
So quest should decide which way is better for him.
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